Return-Path: Received: from e4001 ([209.1.28.62]) by s1000e2.webcom.com (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA17910 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 20:47:13 -0700 Received: from mailing-list.net by e4001 (WebCom SMTP 1.1.0) with SMTP id AAAa002IW; Tue Apr 7 20:46:23 1998 -0800 Received: from eagle.esosoft.net (eagle.esosoft.net [192.41.52.221]) by mailing-list.net (8.8.5) id DAA06534; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 03:53:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (eagle@localhost) by eagle.esosoft.net (8.8.5) id DAA08022; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 03:53:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: by eagle.esosoft.net (bulk_mailer v1.9); Tue, 7 Apr 1998 03:53:53 -0600 Received: (eagle@localhost) by eagle.esosoft.net (8.8.5) id DAA08015; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 03:53:52 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 03:53:52 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199804070953.DAA08015@eagle.esosoft.net> From: owner-vinylphiles-digest@Majordomo.net (vinylphiles-digest) To: vinylphiles-digest@Majordomo.net Subject: vinylphiles-digest V1 #23 Reply-To: vinylphiles@Majordomo.net Sender: owner-vinylphiles-digest@Majordomo.net vinylphiles-digest Tuesday, April 7 1998 Volume 01 : Number 023 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 08:43:48 -0600 From: STEVE CORNETT Subject: [VPs] Larry Bird Susan said: "...I think he means that he's a Big Hick from a small town close to French Lick in Indiana, home of Larry Bird, one of the best Boston Celtics to ever touch a B-Ball..." You can take the boy out of the country, but you can't take the country out of the boy :-) Steve "Big Hick" C. Non semper ea sunt quae videntur. - Phaedrus ========================== To(Un)Subscribe, send email to: Majordomo@Majordomo.net with a message in the body: subscribe vinylphiles or unsubscribe vinylphiles Substitute vinylphiles-digest for vinylphiles if you wish the digest. Vinylphiles Homepage http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Metro/9337/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 09:05:27 -0400 From: "Steven R. Rochlin" <75613.1265@compuserve.com> Subject: [VPs] NYC Visit Dettes/Dudes, Looks like i'm gonna be in the NYC area around the 20-26 of this month. Do any of you DARE to actually meet me and get together for a while, maybe do a nice night together and stuff? Please let me know which day/night you would like to get together. Not sure where i will be staying though. Please let me know. Take care my friend and as always... Enjoy the music, Steven http://www.enjoythemusic.com ========================== To(Un)Subscribe, send email to: Majordomo@Majordomo.net with a message in the body: subscribe vinylphiles or unsubscribe vinylphiles Substitute vinylphiles-digest for vinylphiles if you wish the digest. Vinylphiles Homepage http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Metro/9337/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 8:50:07 -0400 From: "Northcott, Robert" Subject: Re: [VPs] Musicians As Actors In a message dated 98-04-03 11:09:42 EST, marmil@Muze.com writes: > >Who's your favorite musician who's also acted in a film, play > >or television show? > > > Chad and Jeremy as "The Redcoats" on Dick Van Dyke or the whole Partridge Family!!! Bob ========================== To(Un)Subscribe, send email to: Majordomo@Majordomo.net with a message in the body: subscribe vinylphiles or unsubscribe vinylphiles Substitute vinylphiles-digest for vinylphiles if you wish the digest. Vinylphiles Homepage http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Metro/9337/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 09:54:18 -0400 From: "Jack D. Hill" Subject: Re: [VPs] Favoritie Brahms Piano Trio Robert Greene wrote: > > There are two versions of the Opus 8--versions of the music I mean. > One the original and one a revision that Brahms did later. > Later one is smoother as to construction but some of us > feel that the early version captures the youthful ardor > of Brahms at the time better. In any case both are worth a listen, There is a CD that contains both versions of Opus 8. I have it at home and will look up the info tonight. Jack ========================== To(Un)Subscribe, send email to: Majordomo@Majordomo.net with a message in the body: subscribe vinylphiles or unsubscribe vinylphiles Substitute vinylphiles-digest for vinylphiles if you wish the digest. Vinylphiles Homepage http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Metro/9337/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 11:17:05 -0400 From: "Jack D. Hill" Subject: Re: [VPs] Musicians As Actors Susan Murray wrote: > Well, Al, I hate to split hares, but I have to vote for Bugs Bunny. Bugs > introduced me to classical music with the best cartoon of all time, "What's > Opera, Doc?" > > I have lots of Bugs records too. :-) There's a version of one of the Liszt Hungarian Rhapsodies done by Daffy Duck that is hilarious. I've never seen a cartoon version of it but have heard the record on radio once. If anyone has a copy of this that they want to sell I would be extremely grateful. Cheers, Jack Daffy, they call me Daffy.... ... Hunters here and hunters there. Hunters, hunters everywhere. etc. ========================== To(Un)Subscribe, send email to: Majordomo@Majordomo.net with a message in the body: subscribe vinylphiles or unsubscribe vinylphiles Substitute vinylphiles-digest for vinylphiles if you wish the digest. Vinylphiles Homepage http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Metro/9337/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 11:20:44 -0600 From: STEVE CORNETT Subject: [VPs] Elgar quintet Roger posted: "...Nigel Kennedy has what should be a good Violin Sonata on Chandos CD. But as I said, I don't usually buy performances on CD that I have covered on LP--unless the CD is exceptional..." This was issued on vinyl, I think I got my copy from Berkshire. Steve C. Non semper ea sunt quae videntur. - Phaedrus ========================== To(Un)Subscribe, send email to: Majordomo@Majordomo.net with a message in the body: subscribe vinylphiles or unsubscribe vinylphiles Substitute vinylphiles-digest for vinylphiles if you wish the digest. Vinylphiles Homepage http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Metro/9337/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 11:26:20 -0600 From: STEVE CORNETT Subject: [VPs] Musicians As Actors Lanny asked: "...Trivia question: did Allen really play his own clarinet in The Benny Goodman Story?" In case no one else has answered, the answer is no. Goodman recorded new versions of the music used for the film, and Steve "key synced" to the music. I always thought the best faking was done by Jimmy Stewart for The Glenn Miller Story. Jimmy also played a fine jazz piano. Steve C. Non semper ea sunt quae videntur. - Phaedrus ========================== To(Un)Subscribe, send email to: Majordomo@Majordomo.net with a message in the body: subscribe vinylphiles or unsubscribe vinylphiles Substitute vinylphiles-digest for vinylphiles if you wish the digest. Vinylphiles Homepage http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Metro/9337/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 08:51:44 -0500 From: "Susan Murray" Subject: [VPs] Referendum Results The Vinylphiles have voted on the topic of allowing discussion of sex/politics. Out of almost 200 members, 26 voted thusly: YES: 10 NO: 16 The NOs win and it is heretofore decreed that: The members will refrain from discussing sex and politics except in the very narrow context of the recording(s) under discussion. The historical context of recordings made by Furtwangler, Karajan, etc. would be acceptable whereas Jones v. Clinton is not. As for sex, it doesn't come up often in record collecting except for the topic of using it to sell records -- which we've already beaten to death. Anyone interested in dicussing sex and politics outside of vinyl records should try the newsgroups soc.women and soc.men -- where posts are often cross-posted to both. Those groups have historically been (at least for the past 6 years) one giant debate over sex and politics and one would find more willing participants to discuss those issues than one will find here. Free Day Friday: Let's keep those discussions limited to other hobbies (we've had beer making and fly fishing in the past) or humor. Free Day Friday was initiated to foster friendships -- not debate. Let's get back to discussing our hobby -- vinyl records (78s and analogue tapes are ok too). Please direct any comments about the vote to the owners' list at vinyl-owners@webcom.com and not to the general list. The Listowner ========================== To(Un)Subscribe, send email to: Majordomo@Majordomo.net with a message in the body: subscribe vinylphiles or unsubscribe vinylphiles Substitute vinylphiles-digest for vinylphiles if you wish the digest. Vinylphiles Homepage http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Metro/9337/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 12:41:57 -0600 From: STEVE CORNETT Subject: [VPs] Who gets in? Paul posted: "...And how about composers? Is Carmina Burana verboten, for example? Murky waters: what do you think?" You can even say the same thing about composers who worked under the Stalin regime in the USSR. Let's face it, Stalin made Hitler look like a piker. Shall we eliminate Shostakovich or Prokofiev from our collections? Steve C. Non semper ea sunt quae videntur. - Phaedrus ========================== To(Un)Subscribe, send email to: Majordomo@Majordomo.net with a message in the body: subscribe vinylphiles or unsubscribe vinylphiles Substitute vinylphiles-digest for vinylphiles if you wish the digest. Vinylphiles Homepage http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Metro/9337/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 15:39:58 -0400 From: "Steven R. Rochlin" <75613.1265@compuserve.com> Subject: [VPs] Tube Audio Show Dettes/Dudes, The Philadelphia Triode Exposition When: April 26,1998, 1:00pm Where: Valley Forge Hilton Hotel, 610 337-1200 251 W. Dekalb Pike, (Rt. 202), King of Prussia, PA 19406 Featuring: Dennis Had (Cary), Herb Reichert (Audio Note), Jacque Cazelais (Caztech Audio), Nori Komuro (Komuro Audio Labs), Ralph Karsten (Atma-Sphere Music Systems), Don Garber (Fi) David Berning (David Berning Audio Company), Jim Rickets (WAVAC Audio), Ken Stevens (Convergence Audio Technology), and Steve Berger (April Audio). Harvey "Gizmo" Rosenburg will open the show with his insightful, and at times controversial, "Triode Ecstasy Prelude." The event is open to the public and is FREE of charge (wish more shows were like that for the public). It's sponsored by the Philadelphia Audio Society and there will be a raffle for audio equipment door prizes! Hey, tubes are analogue :-{)+ See ya there! Enjoy the music, Steven PS: If ya can't make the show, not to worry. i'll have coverage on my humble web site a day or so after the show with all new panorama software and stuff too! See ya there either way. http://www.enjoythemusic.com ========================== To(Un)Subscribe, send email to: Majordomo@Majordomo.net with a message in the body: subscribe vinylphiles or unsubscribe vinylphiles Substitute vinylphiles-digest for vinylphiles if you wish the digest. Vinylphiles Homepage http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Metro/9337/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 13:51:19 -0500 From: "Nitiss, John " Subject: RE: [VPs] Who gets in? > hp writes: > > Hence, no Karajan in my > >collection. Yes, the Furtwangler/Bayreuth Ninth, which transcends > politics > >and > >which is an artist's > >plea for forgiveness. No, the rest, including Schwarzkopf. > > I have been reading a fair amount about music in Germany during Hitler's time. It is interesting to read about the different choices made by musicians who stayed, and those who left. Some individuals reveal themselves as fairly despicable (a very small minority), and most of them went along with things. The toleration of evil is something most of us probably do: the German people and musisicans tolerated one of the world's greatest evils. For those interested in this moral debate, follow along the discussion about the actions of the Vatican and the pope during world war II. The same issues being discussed here come up in this highly public discussion. I have a Chinese friend who lived through WWII and the japanese occupation. To this day, he will not buy a Japanese car, because he had not yet been able to "forgive" what had happened. His action is not really a boycott, it's a statement against evil. Not many people I know have his moral courage. So, how evil does a musician (or anyone else) have to be before everything he touches is sullied? (I don't have an answer) A personal opinion regarding Karajan: Karajan was used by several individuals as a pawn to maintain power, especially (as I remember by Goering). He certainly took advantage of having such sponsors (and before we jump to conclusions, we should note that Furtwangler's sponsors were Hitler and Goebbels) but there seems to be little evidence that he participated to a major degree in Nazi activities. His despicable activities after the war, his amassing a huge private fortune, his control over muscial life in Germany, makes plausible a sordid career during the third reich, even though it probably didn't happen. A personal opinion about Furtwangler and others: I am quite taken with Furtwangler's conducting. As things stand I don't think there is anything morally wrong with listening to him even though I have moral reservations about some of his actions. I have some queasiness about Knappertsbusch. He wanted to be a Nazi groupie (and he agreed with a lot of Nazi positions including the anti-semitism), but Hitler despised him as a conductor. Somehow, the individuals who appeared to agree with the Nazi ideology are most repugnant. It's hard for me to totally condemn those who couldn't manage to be heros. I realize upon re-reading this post that I'm being somewhat ambiguous. I guess, as far as musicians are concerned, they were not usually in a position to do great good or great evil. Overall, some musicians made brave principled stands (Fritz Busch), were forced out of Germany and therefore had where they stood chosen for them (eg Bruno Walter, Piatgorsky, and many others) or they stayed and suffered or stayed and profitted. But almost always, those that stayed weren't direct participants in the evils that occurred. If we condemn the musicians that stayed, we really need to condemn the whole German people ( and also the whole Russian people, the whole Chinese people, the whole Serbian people). Its a morally consistent position, but I don't think I agree with it. Finally, I should note that the comments about Karajan, Furtwangler and Knappertsbusch are based on fairly superficial research, so please don't regard the statements as the final word. Apologies for veering dangerously off topic. ========================== To(Un)Subscribe, send email to: Majordomo@Majordomo.net with a message in the body: subscribe vinylphiles or unsubscribe vinylphiles Substitute vinylphiles-digest for vinylphiles if you wish the digest. Vinylphiles Homepage http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Metro/9337/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 16:30:00 -0400 From: al@coat.com Subject: Re: [VPs] Tube Audio Show There's even a rumor that Al Fox will be there! - -La Xof ========================== To(Un)Subscribe, send email to: Majordomo@Majordomo.net with a message in the body: subscribe vinylphiles or unsubscribe vinylphiles Substitute vinylphiles-digest for vinylphiles if you wish the digest. Vinylphiles Homepage http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Metro/9337/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 19:25:16 -0500 From: "FANN, ROBERT" Subject: [VPs] Speaking of vinyl records... 'Philes: A few weeks ago, I asked whether there might be something other than poor quality that would lead to scarcity and increased value of certain records -- something like, maybe, a high initial selling price. I wondered whether the "Casals Festival at Perpignan," 1952, could be an example. Bob Cohen picked up on that and we conversed privately about a possible current value, but never got around to the music itself. The set is of 12 performance recordings with catalog numbers ML4551-4562 and a rehearsal recording without a catalog number. All 13 records are identified on the labels as "SL-170" and "LIMITED EDITION"; additionally, all records are stamped "LIMITED EDITION" in the vinyl. The fitted box is marked "THE CASALS FESTIVAL AT PERPIGNAN LIMITED FIRST EDITION SL-170." Inside the box is a sticker stating "This is copy number 791 of a limited edition of two thousand." The performance recordings are of Beethoven and Mozart; the rehearsal is Brahms and Haydn. The performance records are in jackets that all have the same basic artwork, but in different colors, with full notes on the backs. The rehearsal record has a 12" x 12" black-and-white photo of Casals conducting; the back is blank. Eight of the performance records should clean up to near-mint or a shade below; the other four and the rehearsal record have minor scratches. The box and the photo insert are in great shape. [I am, unfortunately, unable to listen to the recordings at this time -- we moved not long ago and I am still not set up for vinyl playback yet. I know, I know... priorities are a bit screwed up lately.] My questions are: Does anyone out there know these records, either as a set or maybe some of the individual records in it? Is SL-170 a keeper on its musical or sonic merits? Or is it along the lines of the Casals (Prades?) Festival Brahms mentioned by Mssr. Greene as "...not much for fidelity..."? Or is it something I should plan to part with in exchange for a) more records or b) a decent turntable (if it's worth that much...)? Thanks, Bob F. ========================== To(Un)Subscribe, send email to: Majordomo@Majordomo.net with a message in the body: subscribe vinylphiles or unsubscribe vinylphiles Substitute vinylphiles-digest for vinylphiles if you wish the digest. Vinylphiles Homepage http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Metro/9337/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 21:35:24 -0700 From: James McClanahan Subject: [VPs] EMI History Hi Folks: I just got a mailer from "Amadeus Press". It includes reference to a book published just last year called: "Since Records Began - EMI: The First Hundred Years". It's written by one Peter Martland and purports to be comprehensive, i.e., "The basis of the book, lavishly illustrated with photographs, documents, and recording memorabilia, is the previously untapped archives of EMI in England, a vast collection of more than eight million documents and recordings from Caruso to the Beach Boys." It sells for $44.95 US and is 410 pages. Anybody familiar with this? Is it to be recommended? Regards, Jim ____________________ Jim McClanahan gjmccl@pacbell.net "Even cowboys need Mozart" ========================== To(Un)Subscribe, send email to: Majordomo@Majordomo.net with a message in the body: subscribe vinylphiles or unsubscribe vinylphiles Substitute vinylphiles-digest for vinylphiles if you wish the digest. Vinylphiles Homepage http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Metro/9337/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 03:07:43 -0400 From: "Michael Biel mbiel@kih.net" Subject: Re: [VPs] NYC Visit Steven R. Rochlin wrote: > Dettes/Dudes, > Looks like i'm gonna be in the NYC area around the 20-26 of this month. You mean they are actually going to let you into New York??? Where are the border guards when we need 'em! :-) Mike Biel mbiel@kih.net ========================== To(Un)Subscribe, send email to: Majordomo@Majordomo.net with a message in the body: subscribe vinylphiles or unsubscribe vinylphiles Substitute vinylphiles-digest for vinylphiles if you wish the digest. Vinylphiles Homepage http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Metro/9337/ ------------------------------ End of vinylphiles-digest V1 #23 ********************************