Return-Path: Received: from e4001 ([209.1.28.62]) by s1000e2.webcom.com (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA22895 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 02:58:42 -0800 Received: from dolphin.esosoft.net by e4001 (WebCom SMTP 1.1.0) with SMTP id AAAa006sN; Sat Feb 28 02:58:05 1998 -0800 Received: from eagle.esosoft.net (eagle.esosoft.net [192.41.52.221]) by dolphin.esosoft.net (8.8.5) id DAA08981; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 03:57:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (eagle@localhost) by eagle.esosoft.net (8.8.5) id DAA24547; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 03:57:37 -0700 (MST) Received: by eagle.esosoft.net (bulk_mailer v1.9); Sat, 28 Feb 1998 03:57:37 -0700 Received: (eagle@localhost) by eagle.esosoft.net (8.8.5) id DAA24541; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 03:57:36 -0700 (MST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 03:57:36 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199802281057.DAA24541@eagle.esosoft.net> From: owner-vinylphiles-digest@Majordomo.net (vinylphiles-digest) To: vinylphiles-digest@Majordomo.net Subject: vinylphiles-digest V1 #69 Reply-To: vinylphiles@Majordomo.net Sender: owner-vinylphiles-digest@Majordomo.net vinylphiles-digest Saturday, February 28 1998 Volume 01 : Number 069 In this issue: RE: [VPs] Suspension of Disbelief [Robert Greene ] Re: [VPs] Suspension of Disbelief [Robert Greene ] Re: [VPs] Suspension of Disbelief [Robert Greene ] Re: [VPs] Phono Stage Upgrade [Robert Greene ] Re: [VPs] A Fun Friday story [Anna Logg ] Re: [VPs] Suspension of Disbelief [nviclassical@postoffice.att.net] Re: [VPs] Westminster Orchestras [nviclassical@postoffice.att.net] Re: [VPs] Suspension of Disbelief [Robert Greene ] Re: [VPs] Phono Stage Upgrade [FJALLES ] RE: [VPs] Suspension of Disbelief [Lanny Chambers ] RE: [VPs] Suspension of Disbelief [Robert Greene ] Re: audiophiles/musicians (was: [VPs] LP defects/artifacts) [--deleted-- ] Re: [VPs] Westminster Orchestras & disbelief [drlarry ] Re: [VPs] Suspension of Disbelief [drlarry ] Re: [VPs] Phono Stage Upgrade [drlarry ] Re: [VPs] Phono Stage Upgrade [PGUEZZE ] [VPs] more apologies [kam6@po.CWRU.Edu (Kevin A. Mason)] Re: [VPs] Phono Stage Upgrade [PGUEZZE ] Re: [VPs] Suspension of Disbelief [Phonofix ] Re: [VPs] Phono Stage Upgrade ["The Vinyl Valet" ] Re: [VPs] Phono Stage Upgrade [PGUEZZE ] Re: [VPs] Suspension of Disbelief ["Steven R. Rochlin" <75613.1265@compus] Re: [VPs] Suspension of Disbelief ["Steven R. Rochlin" <75613.1265@compus] RE: [VPs] Suspension of Disbelief ["Steven R. Rochlin" <75613.1265@compus] Re: [VPs] Suspension of Disbelief ["Steven R. Rochlin" <75613.1265@compus] Re: [VPs] Suspension of Disbelief ["Steven R. Rochlin" <75613.1265@compus] Re: [VPs] Phono Stage Upgrade [Roger Hecht ] Re: [VPs] LP defects/artifacts ["Russell W. Miller" ] Re: [VPs] Apologies to the list [James McClanahan ] Re: [VPs] Suspension of Disbelief [Colin Thompson ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 14:16:55 -0800 (PST) From: Robert Greene Subject: RE: [VPs] Suspension of Disbelief it being Friday: I was discussing the question of getting equipment that was capable of sounding literally like a real instrument. "I like it" has almost nothing to do with that apriori unless one has both a vivid memory of and a great affection for real instrumental sound. Which tends to be what musicians have!! That was the only point. You all are welcome to buy anything you want to! Not every reg@cranky.com is trying to be that much of a control freak. But the possiblity of realism is still interesting (to me anyway) Robert ========================== To(Un)Subscribe, send email to: Majordomo@Majordomo.net with a message in the body: subscribe vinylphiles or unsubscribe vinylphiles Substitute vinylphiles-digest for vinylphiles if you wish the digest. Vinylphiles Homepage http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Metro/9337/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 14:20:13 -0800 (PST) From: Robert Greene Subject: Re: [VPs] Suspension of Disbelief one more thing--whether people care or not at the listening end, the instrument makers and musicians worked awfully hard for their sound. I worked like hell for years(and still do sometimes) to get my violin tone just the way I wanted it, and the great artists worked even harder(and to better effect!). Seems to me you might want to hear what they had in mind(you can ignore me, but do you really want to ignore Heifetz, Milstein etc? Robert ========================== To(Un)Subscribe, send email to: Majordomo@Majordomo.net with a message in the body: subscribe vinylphiles or unsubscribe vinylphiles Substitute vinylphiles-digest for vinylphiles if you wish the digest. Vinylphiles Homepage http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Metro/9337/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 14:32:26 -0800 (PST) From: Robert Greene Subject: Re: [VPs] Suspension of Disbelief It seems to me that people are identifying what I was talking about with audio categories--soundstage etc. But that is not it. I am talking just about getting the real Bechstein, the real Strad, etc sound . This often has little to do with "super discs" in the audiophile sense. And in fact can work well with old recordings sometimes. But it does depend on truthful uncolored speakers, of which there are few around. R ========================== To(Un)Subscribe, send email to: Majordomo@Majordomo.net with a message in the body: subscribe vinylphiles or unsubscribe vinylphiles Substitute vinylphiles-digest for vinylphiles if you wish the digest. Vinylphiles Homepage http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Metro/9337/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 14:35:10 -0800 (PST) From: Robert Greene Subject: Re: [VPs] Phono Stage Upgrade are you discontented? upgrade for the sake of upgrade is not a sensible process I think. If nothing is bothering you, just keep going. If something is bugging you, then the right upgrade probably depends on what it is. Please let us know. Robert ========================== To(Un)Subscribe, send email to: Majordomo@Majordomo.net with a message in the body: subscribe vinylphiles or unsubscribe vinylphiles Substitute vinylphiles-digest for vinylphiles if you wish the digest. Vinylphiles Homepage http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Metro/9337/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 18:07:11 EST From: Anna Logg Subject: Re: [VPs] A Fun Friday story In a message dated 98-02-27 06:37:10 EST, hans.froling@fc.itz.se writes: > Great story Anna! I am glad you enjoyed it! I too thought it hilarious. > -Are you a Standup Comedienne on fridays? Not really, but I love the opportunity to share something clever. This popped into my mailbox just this morning from a friend on the west coast and all I did was copy it out and send it to my fellow VPs.... Cannot take any credit for it other than that! Have a great weekend, now! Best, Anna ========================== To(Un)Subscribe, send email to: Majordomo@Majordomo.net with a message in the body: subscribe vinylphiles or unsubscribe vinylphiles Substitute vinylphiles-digest for vinylphiles if you wish the digest. Vinylphiles Homepage http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Metro/9337/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 17:15:16 +0000 From: nviclassical@postoffice.att.net Subject: Re: [VPs] Suspension of Disbelief REG writes: > It seems to me that people are identifying what I was talking about > with audio categories--soundstage etc. But that is not it. I am > talking just about getting the real Bechstein, the real Strad, > etc sound . This often has little to do with "super discs" > in the audiophile sense. And in fact can work well with old > recordings sometimes. But it does depend on truthful uncolored > speakers, of which there are few around. I think it would depend on what type of music one listens to as to how critical coloration is. Rock [and it's variants of electronc-based music] is all artificially engineered. Most rock bands sound better on records than they do live with all the feedback, bad notes, off-key singing, etc. I think one of the major purposes of recreational drugs in the 60s and 70s was to color our perceptions of some of these live events. :-) The high ranges of Hendrix's guitar could make one's ears bleed. I last saw Crosby, Stills & Nash in the late 70s and I wouldn't want *that* accurately reproduced in my living room; I would rather hear the record. On the other hand, if you listen to mainly classical and/or acoustic music, I think accuracy is a high priority. I tend to choose very detailed and accurate equipment -- or what I perceive to be so. I've often wondered if we all perceive recorded music exactly the same. Dr. Larry is the brain expert; I wonder if he knows if there have been any cognitive studies on the perception of recorded music done by psychologists independent of any equipment manufacturer or audio magazine? On the other, other hand, a couple of years ago sometime did a survey on rec.music.classical.recordings asking for specific equipment used in listening among a group with a very high percentage of classical musicians. I don't remember exactly what the results were, but I do remember that a lot of them listened using mass-market electronics. One person used a Cello system, and the only result which struck me as significant was the preponderance of British manufactured speakers. From this survey, there seemed to be a preference for British speakers over American or Canadian or any other type. Would this indicate that British speakers are perceived to be more accurate by a group of classical music listeners? Some more food for thought. Susan ========================== To(Un)Subscribe, send email to: Majordomo@Majordomo.net with a message in the body: subscribe vinylphiles or unsubscribe vinylphiles Substitute vinylphiles-digest for vinylphiles if you wish the digest. Vinylphiles Homepage http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Metro/9337/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 17:18:49 +0000 From: nviclassical@postoffice.att.net Subject: Re: [VPs] Westminster Orchestras Dr. Larry writes: > As you seem to our resident Westminster expert. I was wondering what the > history of this label was. I know that Igor Kipnis worked for the way > back. Even though the orchestra were not all top notch, but what > delicious and stimulating performances! It's show and tell > time....Friday! I'm sorry, but I don't know the history of the company Westminster. I have a keen interest in the artists who recorded for Westminster, particularly the history right after World War II disapora of musicians. Perhaps Mike Biel, Roy Evans or Paul Hartin knows the answer. Cheers, Susan ========================== To(Un)Subscribe, send email to: Majordomo@Majordomo.net with a message in the body: subscribe vinylphiles or unsubscribe vinylphiles Substitute vinylphiles-digest for vinylphiles if you wish the digest. Vinylphiles Homepage http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Metro/9337/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 15:19:54 -0800 (PST) From: Robert Greene Subject: Re: [VPs] Suspension of Disbelief exactly! Susan. points: electronics are not really the main cause of coloration of the type we are discussing and 2. the Brits a la BBC really did and do(eg Harbeth Compact 7) live for low coloration in comparison 'with live sound(cf also Spendors etc). Makes sense what the survey came up with. Robert ========================== To(Un)Subscribe, send email to: Majordomo@Majordomo.net with a message in the body: subscribe vinylphiles or unsubscribe vinylphiles Substitute vinylphiles-digest for vinylphiles if you wish the digest. Vinylphiles Homepage http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Metro/9337/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 18:44:39 EST From: FJALLES Subject: Re: [VPs] Phono Stage Upgrade In a message dated 98-02-27 16:23:05 EST, PGUEZZE@aol.com writes: << Hi Everyone, I currently have a Classe 25 amp and classe six pre-amp. I'm looking to upgrade to a seperate phono stage. Any suggestions? Paul >> Hi Paul, If you'd like to try tubes check out either the E.A.R. 834P ($I,200.) or the Herron phono for around 3 Gs. If solid state is your bag, Benz-Micro makes the PP-1 for $1,350. or if you have a little more to spend I can heartily recommend any of the American Hybrid Technology phono stages, starting at $2,500. They have a new model priced at around $3,500. which uses a huge fully regulated dual-mono power supply that may be a great option. Happy hunting! Regards, Frank ========================== To(Un)Subscribe, send email to: Majordomo@Majordomo.net with a message in the body: subscribe vinylphiles or unsubscribe vinylphiles Substitute vinylphiles-digest for vinylphiles if you wish the digest. Vinylphiles Homepage http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Metro/9337/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 18:36:15 -0600 From: Lanny Chambers Subject: RE: [VPs] Suspension of Disbelief On 2/27/98 14:30, Robert Greene greene@math.ucla.edu wrote: >reproduced music is not as much of a "fake" as people like to make out. >there have been lots of demos of live vs reproduced where(under certain >circumstances) the difference was hard to detect. Not that the following is a sterling example or anything, and bearing in mind that it's Friday... The St. Louis Symphony sets aside one day each summer for folks to wander about Powell Hall, with an eye/ear toward selecting their season seats. The orchestra is not in attendance, but one of the local audio shops sets up a decent system onstage to play SLSO recordings. Several years ago, I went with Merrill Bauer to one of these. As you might imagine, in a hall as reverberant as Powell, we were hearing ambience-squared from the onstage B&W 801s (not to mention the generally shabby quality of the BMG CDs being played). Merrill is always prepared for anything. He asked if he might hear a certain CD he brought with him: that notorious anechoic test disc from JVC, I think it was. People stopped shuffling around and started to listen to the music! Of a sudden, Powell's luscious sound was revealed as if in a real concert. Well, close, anyway. Lanny Chambers (lanny@derived.com) St. Louis, USA Visit the Hummingbird Page: ========================== To(Un)Subscribe, send email to: Majordomo@Majordomo.net with a message in the body: subscribe vinylphiles or unsubscribe vinylphiles Substitute vinylphiles-digest for vinylphiles if you wish the digest. Vinylphiles Homepage http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Metro/9337/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 16:49:13 -0800 (PST) From: Robert Greene Subject: RE: [VPs] Suspension of Disbelief lucious indeed--I love that place. Wish LA had its like or even close. good story, R ========================== To(Un)Subscribe, send email to: Majordomo@Majordomo.net with a message in the body: subscribe vinylphiles or unsubscribe vinylphiles Substitute vinylphiles-digest for vinylphiles if you wish the digest. Vinylphiles Homepage http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Metro/9337/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 02:02:18 +0100 From: --deleted-- (Claes Liljeqvist) Subject: Re: audiophiles/musicians (was: [VPs] LP defects/artifacts) Mr. Green says: ><< For me, a fiddler collector, it's very important. >> > >I'm sorry, I do have to ask, do you collect 'fiddlers' or 'fiddles'? If it's >a Freudian slip, it's a great one :-) Is it still Freuday [oops! should that be Freiday??] in your areas? Fine, then I may quote a part of my reply to a private e-mail from a person who seemingly thought I typed "fiddle". Someone wrote: >Really? A fiddle collector? What areas are you interested in? Folk >instruments? Any particular makers or schools? I'd love to hear more. [Bad jokes deleted; such as: "So, you would love to hear more? Aren't there any subsidiary funds for hearing aids in the US?? ...] /.../ So, what's my expression supposed to mean? Well, I'm not collecting mummified ex-violinists, for sure, just their recordings on 78s & LPs. [Yes, I prefer the dead ones, they are more rewarding to listen to.] A fascinating world suddenly reduced to a gloomy everyday event; who isn't collecting violin stuff these days. Sorry. /Claes ========================== To(Un)Subscribe, send email to: Majordomo@Majordomo.net with a message in the body: subscribe vinylphiles or unsubscribe vinylphiles Substitute vinylphiles-digest for vinylphiles if you wish the digest. Vinylphiles Homepage http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Metro/9337/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 20:48:03 -0500 From: drlarry Subject: Re: [VPs] Westminster Orchestras & disbelief Susan: Here is an idea. I do know Igor Kipnis' son Jeremy ( I've met Igor several times though) and maybe we can make some inquiries into the Westminster story? Anyone on the list have some information? Otherwise, is there interest in my pursuing the history and recording philosophy of that label? Let me know ..one and all...... Incidentally, Susan, there have been studies in perception of music and other things that lead us into cognitive theory. Musicians tend to use the left side of their brains more so than mere listeners. They tend to "fill in the spaces" more so. It tends to be less a purely right brain experience for them. This can all lead to lots of controversy. Without getting technical, let's just say that there is "no such thing as immaculate perception"....you can quote me on this one!!!! warm regards, Larry nviclassical@postoffice.att.net wrote: > Dr. Larry writes: > > > As you seem to our resident Westminster expert. I was wondering what the > > history of this label was. I know that Igor Kipnis worked for the way > > back. Even though the orchestra were not all top notch, but what > > delicious and stimulating performances! It's show and tell > > time....Friday! > > I'm sorry, but I don't know the history of the company Westminster. I have > a keen interest in the artists who recorded for Westminster, particularly the > history right after World War II disapora of musicians. Perhaps Mike Biel, Roy > Evans or Paul Hartin knows the answer. > > Cheers, > > Susan > > ========================== > > To(Un)Subscribe, send email to: Majordomo@Majordomo.net > with a message in the body: > subscribe vinylphiles > or unsubscribe vinylphiles > Substitute vinylphiles-digest for vinylphiles if you wish the digest. > Vinylphiles Homepage http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Metro/9337/ ========================== To(Un)Subscribe, send email to: Majordomo@Majordomo.net with a message in the body: subscribe vinylphiles or unsubscribe vinylphiles Substitute vinylphiles-digest for vinylphiles if you wish the digest. Vinylphiles Homepage http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Metro/9337/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 20:54:21 -0500 From: drlarry Subject: Re: [VPs] Suspension of Disbelief Robert; how true...how true. Really caring muscians agonize over how they "sound". Milstein in Avery Fisher doing the partitas of Bach...that sound..he had to have bled for it! Nail on the head there Robert! regards, Larry Robert Greene wrote: > one more thing--whether people care or not at the listening end, > the instrument makers and musicians worked awfully hard for their > sound. I worked like hell for years(and still do sometimes) > to get my violin tone just the way I wanted it, and the great artists worked even harder(and to > better effect!). Seems to me you might want to hear what they > had in mind(you can ignore me, but do you really want to > ignore Heifetz, Milstein etc? > Robert > ========================== > > To(Un)Subscribe, send email to: Majordomo@Majordomo.net > with a message in the body: > subscribe vinylphiles > or unsubscribe vinylphiles > Substitute vinylphiles-digest for vinylphiles if you wish the digest. > Vinylphiles Homepage http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Metro/9337/ ========================== To(Un)Subscribe, send email to: Majordomo@Majordomo.net with a message in the body: subscribe vinylphiles or unsubscribe vinylphiles Substitute vinylphiles-digest for vinylphiles if you wish the digest. Vinylphiles Homepage http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Metro/9337/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 20:57:18 -0500 From: drlarry Subject: Re: [VPs] Phono Stage Upgrade Robert: You are on a roll. Many moons ago I "upgraded" my Classe' 6 phono preamp and good lord, what a disaster! My last SS preamp and the end of a great reproducer. Upgrade doesn't mean better or more life-like. On target again. Larry Robert Greene wrote: > are you discontented? upgrade for the sake of upgrade is not a > sensible process I think. If nothing is bothering you, just > keep going. If something is bugging you, then the right > upgrade probably depends on what it is. Please let us know. > Robert > ========================== > > To(Un)Subscribe, send email to: Majordomo@Majordomo.net > with a message in the body: > subscribe vinylphiles > or unsubscribe vinylphiles > Substitute vinylphiles-digest for vinylphiles if you wish the digest. > Vinylphiles Homepage http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Metro/9337/ ========================== To(Un)Subscribe, send email to: Majordomo@Majordomo.net with a message in the body: subscribe vinylphiles or unsubscribe vinylphiles Substitute vinylphiles-digest for vinylphiles if you wish the digest. Vinylphiles Homepage http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Metro/9337/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 22:04:35 EST From: PGUEZZE Subject: Re: [VPs] Phono Stage Upgrade In a message dated 98-02-27 17:35:35 EST, you write: << are you discontented? upgrade for the sake of upgrade is not a sensible process I think. If nothing is bothering you, just keep going. If something is bugging you, then the right upgrade probably depends on what it is. Please let us know. Robert >> Robert I'm not discontented. I just want better. I have a VPI TNT turntable with a Graham 1.5t tonearm and a Sumiko BluePoint Special. I want the best for my front end,or should I say the best that i can Afford. Also looking to upgrade my Cartridge. Maybe the Glider. Paul ========================== To(Un)Subscribe, send email to: Majordomo@Majordomo.net with a message in the body: subscribe vinylphiles or unsubscribe vinylphiles Substitute vinylphiles-digest for vinylphiles if you wish the digest. Vinylphiles Homepage http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Metro/9337/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 22:10:35 -0500 (EST) From: kam6@po.CWRU.Edu (Kevin A. Mason) Subject: [VPs] more apologies How do you get a soprano into a Yugo? Grease her hips and put a do-nut on the dashboard. A pinao player was talking o a lounge singer before a show. "I want you to try something a little different tonight. I want you to slow down when you get to the second chorus, modulate down a semitone, then up a major fourth. Keep doing that until the bridge, then sing in free time. After the bridge I want you to accent the off beat, and sing as if the song were in Bb major." The singer looked puzzled and said "I can't do all that." The pianist responded: "but that's just wha you did last night." -K ========================== To(Un)Subscribe, send email to: Majordomo@Majordomo.net with a message in the body: subscribe vinylphiles or unsubscribe vinylphiles Substitute vinylphiles-digest for vinylphiles if you wish the digest. Vinylphiles Homepage http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Metro/9337/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 22:10:48 EST From: PGUEZZE Subject: Re: [VPs] Phono Stage Upgrade In a message dated 98-02-27 18:46:01 EST, you write: << Hi Paul, If you'd like to try tubes check out either the E.A.R. 834P ($I,200.) or the Herron phono for around 3 Gs. If solid state is your bag, Benz-Micro makes the PP-1 for $1,350. or if you have a little more to spend I can heartily recommend any of the American Hybrid Technology phono stages, starting at $2,500. They have a new model priced at around $3,500. which uses a huge fully regulated dual-mono power supply that may be a great option. Happy hunting! Regards, Frank >> Hi Frank, I am interested in tubes. I will listen to the E.A.R. also the Audio Research. Looking to add a few more in the ring. I'll keep you informed. Thanks Paul G. ========================== To(Un)Subscribe, send email to: Majordomo@Majordomo.net with a message in the body: subscribe vinylphiles or unsubscribe vinylphiles Substitute vinylphiles-digest for vinylphiles if you wish the digest. Vinylphiles Homepage http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Metro/9337/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 22:16:11 EST From: Phonofix Subject: Re: [VPs] Suspension of Disbelief In a message dated 98-02-27 08:28:27 EST, 75613.1265@compuserve.com writes: > Unfortunately some folks who claim to love music seem so caught up in the= > > mechanics, the Shim Mick pucks, the cables, the CD treatment, the vinyl > cleaning formulation, the room treatments, the capacitors, the power > supply, the chair height, how the speakers are angled into the room, the > stands, the resonances of the speaker's cabinet, microphonics, jitter...... Steven: A good friend and myself have been having just this conversation, but I lacked the guts to bring it up here....are you armor-plated? Dave ========================== To(Un)Subscribe, send email to: Majordomo@Majordomo.net with a message in the body: subscribe vinylphiles or unsubscribe vinylphiles Substitute vinylphiles-digest for vinylphiles if you wish the digest. Vinylphiles Homepage http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Metro/9337/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 01:27:18 -0700 From: "The Vinyl Valet" Subject: Re: [VPs] Phono Stage Upgrade The EAR 834P without the fancy faceplate (same circuitry) retails for $895 (MM/MC) or $695 (MM). The AcousTech PH-1 offers better sound (I highly recommend an audition), flexibility and value than the Benz at $1200. I would not recommend anything more expensive than this without knowing the other components in your system. More money could probably be better spent elsewhere. - ---------- > From: FJALLES > To: vinylphiles@Majordomo.net > Subject: Re: [VPs] Phono Stage Upgrade > Date: Friday,February 27,1998 4:44 PM > > In a message dated 98-02-27 16:23:05 EST, PGUEZZE@aol.com writes: > > << Hi Everyone, > > I currently have a Classe 25 amp and classe six pre-amp. I'm looking > to upgrade to a seperate phono stage. Any suggestions? > > Paul > >> > > Hi Paul, > > If you'd like to try tubes check out either the E.A.R. 834P ($I,200.) or > the Herron phono for around 3 Gs. If solid state is your bag, Benz-Micro makes > the PP-1 for $1,350. or if you have a little more to spend I can heartily > recommend any of the American Hybrid Technology phono stages, starting at > $2,500. They have a new model priced at around $3,500. which uses a huge fully > regulated dual-mono power supply that may be a great option. Happy hunting! > > > Regards, > Frank > ========================== > > To(Un)Subscribe, send email to: Majordomo@Majordomo.net > with a message in the body: > subscribe vinylphiles > or unsubscribe vinylphiles > Substitute vinylphiles-digest for vinylphiles if you wish the digest. > Vinylphiles Homepage http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Metro/9337/ ========================== To(Un)Subscribe, send email to: Majordomo@Majordomo.net with a message in the body: subscribe vinylphiles or unsubscribe vinylphiles Substitute vinylphiles-digest for vinylphiles if you wish the digest. Vinylphiles Homepage http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Metro/9337/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 22:28:08 EST From: PGUEZZE Subject: Re: [VPs] Phono Stage Upgrade In a message dated 98-02-27 22:19:36 EST, you write: << The EAR 834P without the fancy faceplate (same circuitry) retails for $895 (MM/MC) or $695 (MM). The AcousTech PH-1 offers better sound (I highly recommend an audition), flexibility and value than the Benz at $1200. I would not recommend anything more expensive than this without knowing the other components in your system. More money could probably be better spent elsewhere. >> Here's what I have. VPI TNT Turntable, Graham 1.5t tonearm, Sumiko BluePoint Special. Classe 25 Amp Classe Six Pre-Amp EAD DSP-7000 EAD T-7000 Alon IV Speakers Paul G. ========================== To(Un)Subscribe, send email to: Majordomo@Majordomo.net with a message in the body: subscribe vinylphiles or unsubscribe vinylphiles Substitute vinylphiles-digest for vinylphiles if you wish the digest. Vinylphiles Homepage http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Metro/9337/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 23:47:40 -0500 From: "Steven R. Rochlin" <75613.1265@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: [VPs] Suspension of Disbelief Bob, Thanks for the constructive critisms. ALL help is ALWAYS appreciated. >>>Your dissertation is eloquent and impassioned. I couldn't have said it better. Nonetheless, I would pick one nit. IMHO, the extremes of Reality-o-Philia and Willing Suspension of Disbelief are not the only 2 possibilities, and are not mutually exclusive. I would see them as 2 ends of a continuum.<<< Agreed. >>>Sometimes I crave an audiophile experience, with the best sounding record on the best sounding system, and analysing every aspect of timbre, dynamics, and soundstage.<<< Me too! Heck, it's also my, er, um, job too. Though then there are time to just enjoy the music... >>> Sometimes I get goosebumps from a terrible sounding disc, which has wonderful music, and I couldn't care less how it sounds.<<< Yup! You hit the nail on the head there cool dude. WHy is it that some of THE best performances i have on vinyl recordings have less then awesome recording qualities. Personally i'd rather have a great performance over great sound. >>> Your points are well taken, but I would argue that few people in this group fall into any one category *all the time*.<<< Ij this group i'd agree, yet i HAVE been subjected to strick Reality-O-Phile(s) at times during my travels and i just wonder at times... Maybe they are masochistic and enjoy it? Hey, it's cool in whatever floats their boat, ya know. >>>I'll bet that within the heart of each Reality-o-phile lurks a 5 year old who sings "It's a Small World" in the shower. You obviously put a lot of thought into your message, and it is deserving of thoughtful responses.<<< Agreed that many folks have the soul of a 5 year old at times and a most humble thanks for the compliment. As i stated about it in the beginning, it's a work in progress and will probably change quite a bit before i put it on my web site. Unfortunately A LOT of the soul got lost between the inspiration and the word processor. Where's a PDA when you need one? Enjoy the music, Steven http://www.enjoythemusic.com ========================== To(Un)Subscribe, send email to: Majordomo@Majordomo.net with a message in the body: subscribe vinylphiles or unsubscribe vinylphiles Substitute vinylphiles-digest for vinylphiles if you wish the digest. Vinylphiles Homepage http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Metro/9337/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 23:47:34 -0500 From: "Steven R. Rochlin" <75613.1265@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: [VPs] Suspension of Disbelief Susan, >>>Dr. Larry is the brain expert; I wonder if he knows if there have been any cognitive studies on the perception of recorded music done by psychologists independent of any equipment manufacturer or audio magazine?<<< Sorry to kinda butt in here. Yes, there are many studies of which some are privately funded and still ongoing. i was involved in assisting in such studies a while back in Florida with certified audiologists. It's no secret that some professionals use music/sounds as a type of rehabilitation or mood modifier. Also it is known that various harmonics and structures may induce various feelings or be used as mood modifiers. But hey, i hate discussing the teckkie stuff though it does have many merits. (Humor) And hey, Barry White seems to work for me in many situations :-{)+ . Enjoy the music, Steven http://www.enjoythemusic.com ========================== To(Un)Subscribe, send email to: Majordomo@Majordomo.net with a message in the body: subscribe vinylphiles or unsubscribe vinylphiles Substitute vinylphiles-digest for vinylphiles if you wish the digest. Vinylphiles Homepage http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Metro/9337/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 23:47:42 -0500 From: "Steven R. Rochlin" <75613.1265@compuserve.com> Subject: RE: [VPs] Suspension of Disbelief Robert, Agreed in that we HAVE come a long way verses, say, video. Audio is MANY LEAGUES ahead of video reproduction in a movie/motion picture aspect. Just my humbly 3 kroner. Enjoy the music, Steven http://www.enjoythemusic.com ========================== To(Un)Subscribe, send email to: Majordomo@Majordomo.net with a message in the body: subscribe vinylphiles or unsubscribe vinylphiles Substitute vinylphiles-digest for vinylphiles if you wish the digest. Vinylphiles Homepage http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Metro/9337/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 23:47:37 -0500 From: "Steven R. Rochlin" <75613.1265@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: [VPs] Suspension of Disbelief Robert, >>> Seems to me you might want to hear what they had in mind(you can ignore me, but do you really want to ignore Heifetz, Milstein etc?<<< Agreed. i love Italian things too :-{)+ . Of course technique also plays a role on the eventual sound produced by an instrument. Then again pianos can sound VERY different even within the same make/model depending on tuning, playing style, etc. Of course then there's the hall the music is played in and other parameters too. Enjoy the music, Steven http://www.enjoythemusic.com ========================== To(Un)Subscribe, send email to: Majordomo@Majordomo.net with a message in the body: subscribe vinylphiles or unsubscribe vinylphiles Substitute vinylphiles-digest for vinylphiles if you wish the digest. Vinylphiles Homepage http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Metro/9337/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 00:05:21 -0500 From: "Steven R. Rochlin" <75613.1265@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: [VPs] Suspension of Disbelief Dave, >>> A good friend and myself have been having just this conversation, but I lacked the guts to bring it up here....are you armor-plated?<<< No, just human, though i am VERY guilty of: >... the cables, the CD treatment, the vinyl > cleaning formulation, the room treatments, the capacitors, the power > supply, the chair height, how the speakers are angled into the room, the > stands, the resonances of the speaker's cabinet, microphonics, jitter...... and guilty of MUCH more stuff too. Tube Sox, intertubes, sand bags, custom electrical work, balanced power... In the end i guess the point was to beg for folks to forget about the mechanics, even for a few moments of they can, and to... Enjoy the music, Steven PS: The article is a VERY basic, crude work in progress. MUCH insperation needs to be added to it and modify the writings accordingly. Thanks for your time. It IS appreciated. http://www.enjoythemusic.com ========================== To(Un)Subscribe, send email to: Majordomo@Majordomo.net with a message in the body: subscribe vinylphiles or unsubscribe vinylphiles Substitute vinylphiles-digest for vinylphiles if you wish the digest. Vinylphiles Homepage http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Metro/9337/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 22:54:56 -0500 From: Roger Hecht Subject: Re: [VPs] Phono Stage Upgrade At 10:04 PM 2/27/98 EST, you wrote: > > I'm not discontented. I just want better. I have a VPI TNT turntable >with a Graham 1.5t tonearm and a Sumiko BluePoint Special. I want the best for >my front end,or should I say the best that i can Afford. Also looking to >upgrade my Cartridge. Maybe the Glider. > With that rig, the cartridge would seem to be the best candidate for an upgrade. I have a Benz Ruby and love it. I don't know the Benz Glider. Roger Hecht ========================== To(Un)Subscribe, send email to: Majordomo@Majordomo.net with a message in the body: subscribe vinylphiles or unsubscribe vinylphiles Substitute vinylphiles-digest for vinylphiles if you wish the digest. Vinylphiles Homepage http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Metro/9337/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 01:17:03 -0500 From: "Russell W. Miller" Subject: Re: [VPs] LP defects/artifacts On Thu, 26 Feb 1998 12:54:46 -0800 (PST), Robert Greene wrote: > I guess I did not make myself clear. Mengelberg's Hammerklavier is > an orchestral arrangement of Beethoven's original version(for piano > obviously). Sorry for muddying the waters. As far as I am aware > not even conductors of colossal ego (all of them nearly) have gonme > gone so far as to conduct a solo performance of another person! Correct me if I'm wrong, but as I've never heard of a Mengelberg arrangement of the Hammerklavier, I'm thinking you may have mixed him up with Weingartner. Felix Weingartner did orchestrate this sonata, and he recorded it for Columbia around 1930. Weingartner also recorded a couple Beethoven sonatas as a pianist, but on piano rolls, not phonograph records. Russell W. Miller rwm@miller.mv.com ========================== To(Un)Subscribe, send email to: Majordomo@Majordomo.net with a message in the body: subscribe vinylphiles or unsubscribe vinylphiles Substitute vinylphiles-digest for vinylphiles if you wish the digest. Vinylphiles Homepage http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Metro/9337/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 22:40:16 -0800 From: James McClanahan Subject: Re: [VPs] Apologies to the list Jack D. Hill wrote: > What's the diffence between a soprano and a seamstress? > > A seamstress tucks and frills. I'm afraid most of the ones like this I learned in grad school (I'm an anthropologist by training) are a little too blue even for such an enlightened group of souls as we have here. But since it's Friday (an hour or so to go in California) I'll offer one of the more innocuous couplets: Why is a crafty philologist like a Frenchman? Because he's a cunning linguist. Ethnocentrically yours, Jim ========================== To(Un)Subscribe, send email to: Majordomo@Majordomo.net with a message in the body: subscribe vinylphiles or unsubscribe vinylphiles Substitute vinylphiles-digest for vinylphiles if you wish the digest. Vinylphiles Homepage http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Metro/9337/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 23:18:45 -0800 From: Colin Thompson Subject: Re: [VPs] Suspension of Disbelief Greetings, Given some of the notes on "[VPs] Apologies to the list", I'm sure I can get away with this one. With all do respect to everyone on the list, a good hi-fi system makes music for it's owner. The difference between the best and worst recordings is (and should be) extreme, but they all should want to make you get up and dance, cry (or fill in the emotional blank). A good system makes you "enjoy the music". Any thing else is just a counterfit. All this super hi-fi stuff is quite often just poopoo (flame away, privatly please). It's no wonder why musicians don't have super duper stereos, they just listen to the music! Colin, Wearing out my recliner trying to sit still to Mark Knoplers's "I don't want to buy your car" played through a local FM station, Magnum Dynalab Silver Ribbon, Rotel RT-850A tuner, Garth Audio Queen Mother interconnects, Holmes Powell headphone amp and Etymotic earphones. It could easily be my Sony FM Walkman and Etymotics. Hi-Fi, duh?!! Bad taste in music? Your call! Steven R. Rochlin wrote: > >>> Sometimes I get goosebumps from a > terrible sounding disc, which has wonderful music, and I couldn't care > less how it sounds.<<< > > Yup! You hit the nail on the head there cool dude. WHy is it that > some of THE best performances i have on vinyl recordings have less then > awesome recording qualities. Personally i'd rather have a great > performance over great sound. ========================== To(Un)Subscribe, send email to: Majordomo@Majordomo.net with a message in the body: subscribe vinylphiles or unsubscribe vinylphiles Substitute vinylphiles-digest for vinylphiles if you wish the digest. Vinylphiles Homepage http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Metro/9337/ ------------------------------ End of vinylphiles-digest V1 #69 ********************************